El was an important god in Canaanite mythology. In 1967, Raphael Patai was . Solomon erected an altar to Chemosh south of the Mount of Olives outside Jerusalem, on the Hill of Corruption. This is fitting, considering that God . Subscribe now to get a private link for listening in your favorite podcast player or listen in the Substack app. Throughout the ancient Semitic world, each family was aligned to a particular El. This practice, while gruesome, was certainly not unique to the Moabites, as such rites were commonplace in the various Canaanite religious cults, including those of the Baals and Moloch. Israelites had 4-5 criteria for determining how Yahweh was the 'true god,' but I won't launch into that here ." Parker: "There are many uses of the plural term of the word Elohim in the Bible." https://www.blockonomics.co/pay-url/d67c8d28371411eb. The Very First Bible: The cult of Chemosh was eventually destroyed in Judah by King Josiah ( 2 Kings 23 ). If a Girl says to me "call me tomorrow and we'll go on a date." Elijah's confrontation ISBN links support NWE through referral fees, https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/p/index.php?title=Chemosh&oldid=1018011, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License. you're treating him like part of a pantheon. But as a common literary topos, this same appeal to divine decree and the possession of land was also legitimated through the scribal pen of other ancient Near Eastern cultures, such as the Moabites, where it was Chemoshnot Yahwehwho decreed Moabs land as a rightful possession to the Moabites! Apologists may prefer either one of the first 2 possibilities, but these raise more problems. " Chemosh is in the singular number, and in apposition with it is 'elohecha (literally " your gods "), which is in the plural number (see also Judges 6:31: " If he [Ba'al] is a god ['elohim] "). Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 Listen now (19 min) | Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. Does Yahweh regret and change his mind OR does he not? The great wrath may refer to the divine wrath of Chemosh! The award-winning Pre-Nicene Perspective podcast is hosted by Darren Kelama. 24Will you not take what your god Chemosh gives you? #343. In summary, Mesha realized that Chemosh waited to restore Moab in his day, for which Mesha was grateful to Chemosh. Mythologists and other scholars suggest that such activity may be due to the fact the Chemosh and other Canaanite gods such as the Baals, Moloch, Thammuz, and Baalzebub were all personifications of the sun or the sun's rays. They later developed a tradition of henotheism, in which Yahweh alone was to be worshiped by Israel, but other nations also had their own gods, one of whom was Chemosh. But that is mankind! Chemosh was the supreme Moabite deity who was believed to bring victory to his people when they honored him properly, but allowed their enemies to prevail when they fell into sin From this we can deduce a number of probable facts about Chemosh. However, the theme of promised land to a people by that peoples deity was a commonplace among the geopolitical and literary landscape of the ancient Near Eastern world. Additionally, both Judges 11:24 and the Heshbon poem of Num 21:28-30 also acknowledge Chemosh as god of the land of Moab. Dispossess so to inherit his land! You have perished, O people of Chemosh!" Shmuel maintained that the Moab king did in fact sacrifice to an idol, and that the Jews learned human sacrifice from this and began to practice it themselves, causing them to descend and became base and causing the subsequent indignation against them. You will overthrow every fortified city and every major town." as a record of Mesha's victories in his revolt against the Kingdom of Israel after the death of his overlord, King Ahab. Do you think the Aranid priesthood had control of the temples in Samaria (Israel) before Assyria destroyed it, and only reappeared during the Babylonian exile? Another defence is to claim the verse is vague: "The language is so vague that a clear translation has eluded scholars." It is an attempt to understand man, including our forefathers, in all his aspects. It is entirely within his abilities. This appears to be the case, and every major city is destroyed except Kir Hareseth, or "Fortified City of Dirt." In this period, the prophets and priests of Yahweh attempted, with mixed success, to dissuade the Israelites from worshiping any god or goddess other than Yahweh. Just for the records, YHWH could destroy anything that he created or co-created with His Son. These facts are inexplicable except on the theory that neither Elisha nor Elijah nor the men who wrote their lives denied the existence of the heathen gods. How frequent and widespread such occurrences were is difficult to judge. in Comparative Literature; B.A. Fire-gods appear to have been common to all the Canaanite, Syrian and Arab tribes, who worshipped the destructive element under an outward symbol, with the most inhuman rites. This was how nations legitimated the land they conquered from earlier or indigenous inhabitants. Only the pure are allowed to eat sacrificial meat OR both the pure and impure? The incorrect understanding is the backwards assumption of omnipotence from later Persian influence. The Moabites are apostrophized in an old Hebrew song as the "people of Chemosh" (Nu 21:29). In Babylonian or Greek mythologies we find one god struggling upwards, and he assumes a position and remains there, while the other gods die out. Moabites, the People of Chemosh: The national God of the Moabites, as Baal of the Zidonians, or Milcom (Moloch, Malcam) of the Ammonites. Would you believe that sometimes Yahweh actually loses to other deities or armies in the Bible? 23 Now since the Lord, the God of Israel, has driven the Amorites out before his people Israel, what right have you to take it over? Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 - YouTube 0:00 / 19:00 Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 First Bible Network 117. The specific characteristics of Chemosh are not clear in many respects. In 1868, an archaeological find at Dibon provided scholars with more clues to the nature of Chemosh. Certainly in polytheistic religions, gods do lose battles. Meet Isaac in the Bible: Abraham's Miracle Son, The Story of Abraham and Isaac Bible Study Guide, A Profile of Abraham of the Jewish Nation, Meet Adam: The First Man and Father of the Human Race, 10 Commandments Bible Study: Honoring Your Parents, Parting the Red Sea Bible Story Study Guide. Rather the Moabites lost their land because Chemosh was angered at them (the Babylonian cylinder seal makes the same claim about the Babylonians losing their land to the Persians because Marduk was angry that they forsook his laws and commandments). An ancient poem, twice quoted in the Old Testament (Num. Just as the worship of Yahweh set Israelites apart from other peoples during the Iron Age II, so did the Ammonites' worship of Milcom distinguish them from their closest neighbors and rivals. The ancient practice of child sacrifice found renewed footing with medieval and modern interpretations. (Deut 2:9-23 vs Num 20-21), #3. Little is known about Chemosh; although King Solomon of Israel built a sanctuary to him east of Jerusalem (1 Kings 11:7), the shrine was later demolished by King Josiah (2 Kings 23:13). This implies that there is a source of divinity outside of their god. ( , ) ". Maybe that's why Yahweh decided to sacrifice his firstborn son? This does not explain how "divine wrath" was involved in their departure. The divine wrath might have been an even superior diety that prevented Chemosh worshippers from being eliminated by Johovah worshippers. On critical occasions, a human sacrifice was considered necessary to secure the favor of Chemosh. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. He was called by the ancient Israelites as "the abomination of Moab". But, suddenly, in verse 27, the Moabite king sacrifices his own child, and "divine wrath" fell on Israel, causing them to retreat. This rules out Jehovah's omnipotence. Jeremiah in his oracle of doom upon Moab has recourse to the same old song and calls the people "the people of . Chemosh was one of those gods worshiped by Solomon's wives. Likewise, whatever the Lord our God has given us, we will possess. Yep Another story of People not trusting God. 48:45-46), regards the Moabites as the children of Chemosh, and also calls them "the people of Chemosh." The Moabite Stone is a priceless source of information concerning Chemosh. The Israelites were driven back by divine wrath opposing their gods will. The Moabite King Mesha dedicated a high place to Chemosh which contained a well-preserved inscription on the so-called Moabite Stone, describing Chemosh's involvement in Mesha's battles against the descendants of the Israelite kings Omri and Ahab. They represented the fierce, inescapable, and often consuming heat of the summer sun (a necessary but deadly element in life; analogs may be found in Aztec sun worship). Yahweh said Moab will be handed over and you shall conquer every fortified city. Retrieved from https://www.learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630. Chemosh (from Hebrew , pronounced /emo/), was the primary god of the Moabites (Num. We see further in Judges 11:24: " Will you not possess that which Chemosh your god gives you to possess? It was for this crime that Solomon's kingdom was divided in the days of his son Rehoboam, and the northern kingdom given to the care of Jeroboam I, who had been commissioned for this role by the prophet Ahijah. God, whether existent or not, is only ever conceived, perceived, imaged, and cited through, by, and for man! no religions talk of their gods ever losing battles. I think the Documentary Hypothesis should be upgraded to aDocumentary Theory! 32:8) divided the earth according to the number of heavenly beings who existed from before the time of creation. {2 Kings 3:27). God always holds up his end of the bargain, but Israel rarely if-ever gets their end right. "My god helps me win and defeat your god" -> Chemosh vs. Yahweh Temple of Solomon Yahwism Worship of Yahweh by the people of Israel. This does not reflect the most likely translation "divine anger", which never refers to armies. But since they became afraid of the wrath of Chemosh, or because they were simply disgusted by the crazy act of the king, they left. God Had a Wife? 16, ln. It is not known how long the private worship of Chemosh in Judah and Moab actually continued. Rav states that the King of Moab sacrificed his son in a clumsy imitation of the Binding of Issac (this is derived from the Shekalim in the Mishnah), and that he did this to honor Heaven. That is each nationIsraelite, Babylonian, Egyptian, Moabite, etc.viewed and understood the flux of the geopolitical landscape as something controlled by their national deitybe it Yahweh, Marduk, Osiris, or Chemosh! A plural of majesty, the term Elohimthough sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofeim), and the Messiahis usually employed in the Old Testament for the one and . And its fascinating and instructive to learn of these things from this perspective. Support the show with bitcoin: fbn@getalby.com And this theological grid that dictated that ones cultural deity controlled the events of history and the granting and losing of lands (blessings and curses) was the narrative that ancient Near Eastern cultures projected onto their realities, and which conversely informed their realities! in Classical Studies; C.Phil. Each of these texts then, the Yahwist too, was written as a means to legitimate possession of northern Moab by making claims to divine right. King Mesha of Moab erected the Moabite Stone to his god Chemosh to commemorate Mesha's breaking of Israel's domination, which, he says, had lasted 40 years and was allowed by Chemosh because he was "angry with his land." This revolt of Moab is usually considered to be related to the events recorded in the third chapter of 2 Kings. Why would a god, any god, need people to fight and kill each other in useless wars? As noted in the footnotes of the NET bible: [2]. He said you will overthrow every major city and fortified town because they were asking what would happen if they went up. 7. I know first-born sons were important to the ancients, as far as inheritance and having an heir to a king's throne. This article incorporates text from the 19011906 Jewish Encyclopedia, a publication now in the public domain. Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites and who was also worshipped by the Ammonites. Adonis | Anat | Asherah | Ashima | Astarte | Atargatis | The obvious implication is that the god Chemosh, happy with the sacrifice, caused Israel's defeat. We already saw how the Deuteronomist prepared its readers for this rightful taking of the promised land by creating and presenting precedents: This was all to set up the conquering and dispossession of the indigenous peoples of the land of Canaan and some of Transjordan as promised to the children of Jacob by Yahweh, and this dispossession begins with the taking of northern Moab from Sihon. Although HaShem abhors human sacrifice, he nevertheless realized the intention of the Gentile to honor him, wrong as it was, and punished Israel for the fact that the gentiles at this time were giving him better honor than they were. in 2 Kings 3, Yahweh's prophecy of victory is a failure, and a Moabite god's wrath drives Israel into retreat. They encompass a much larger panorama: man in all his splendor and tragedy. Burton, Judd H. "Chemosh: Ancient God of Moabites." your conclusion does not follow. So the Bible has lied, do you not believe Yahwey was defeated by Chemosh? The Moabites are apostrophized in an old Hebrew song as the "people of Chemosh" ( Nu 21:29 ). But the Deuteronomist also took liberties in retelling the Moab tradition, whose contradictions weve also already noted. Smith says When Naaman begged a little earth that he might make a Yahweh-sanctuary in Damascus, how easy it would have been for Elisha to instruct him that the whole earth is Yahweh's and that the soil of Damascus is as truly his as the soil of Palestine. Chemosh, the subduer, was the national god of the Moabites and was also worshiped by the Ammonites. Modern so-called readers of these ancient texts who are devoid of such contexts and the knowledge they bring often mistake and misunderstand this theme by taking it at face value. Israelites engaged in human sacrifice as late as the time of the prophet Jeremiah, who says: "They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech, though I never commanded it, nor did it enter my mind." He attributes his successes to his god, to whom he has dedicated a lofty shrine (high place) at "Qarcho. Here as well, the Jewish people learned from the king of Moab to engage in human sacrifice.en Levi. Why would an omnipotent being be in any need of war? Calvinism may have a hard time with this because they remove any element of human free-will, but I do not, because God kept his promise and let his people not accept it. The Gemara asks: Granted, according to the one who says that he sacrificed him for the sake of Heaven, this is as it is written: And there was great indignation against Israel, as the gentile attempted to honor God according to his understanding, while the Jewish people were straying from worshipping God, leading to Gods anger against them. Yahweh would have delivered Israel anyway, without Jephthah's . Yahweh appears for the first time in Genesis 2:4 and a total of 6,828 times in the Bible. Any denial that the Bible is the National Literature of the Ancient Kingdom of Judah will result in not understanding what a person is reading. Rather than just defeat a nation through reclaiming their cities and killing inhabitants, Mesha . (Job 38:7 states that the heavenly host was present at creation.). This site requires JavaScript to run correctly. As for Omri, king of Israel, he humbled Moab many years, for Chemosh was angry at his land. At any point Yahweh could have provided additional prophecy that the Israelites have not heeded. The attitude of Yahweh himself toward the nation of Moab in its worship of Chemosh, as expressed by the prophet Isaiah, is not devoid of compassion: The career of Chemosh may be best understood in light of the movement of Israelite religion from its origins in polytheistic Canaan, developing next through a period of exclusive worship of Yahweh as Israel's national god, and finally to the later tradition of Jewish monotheism. . Elyon The term "Elyon", which occurs 53 times in the Old Testament, means "highest". Ugaritic mythology plainly states that the head of its pantheon, El (who, like the God of the Bible, is also referred to as El Elyon, the "Most High") fathered seventy sons, thereby specifying the number of the "sons of El" (Ugaritic, bn il). Also known as the "Mesha Stele," this remarkable monument was erected about 850 B.C.E. Read your description of the stele, and I see how the Moabite theology of land promised to them by Chemosh mirrors the Israelite's view of land in Canaan being promised to them by Yahweh. Of course, we cannot overlook the fact of . Jephthah is disputing the right of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest. [37] https://www.theveryfirstbible.org And in regards to our current educational malaise, this type of education is utterly lacking and unfortunately devalued and misunderstood. Please, How would the Pre-Nicene Christians view the tumultuous events of today? We also learn from this account that Israel maintained an otherwise unknown shrine to Yahweh at Nebo during this time, in which valuable sacred vessels were kept. During the time of Ahab's son Joram, a king of Moab (perhaps Mesha) is described as sacrificing his son in order to gain the upper hand when he was in dire military straits. God promise to give Israel total victory over Moab if they fought. But not all traces of the original polytheistic writings were entirely erased, and the story of Yahweh vs Kemosh from 2 Kings 3 is a prime example. Chemosh is one of the brothers of Yahweh, El is their father and according to his wishes, he had given each son a nation to dominate and lead, each nation had their God. https://sites.google.com/site/yahwehelohiym/sons-of-god/the-el-of-a-family. In short, the stele makes it clear that from the perspective of this Moabite scribe Chemosh controlled what befell the Moabites (blessings or curses) and who possessed the land. Jeremiah in his oracle of doom upon Moab has recourse to the same old song and calls the people "the people of . For my part, my unique educational trajectory through various disciplines of the HumanitiesPh.D. This parallel is clear. (For the unusual circumstances surrounding its discovery, see Archaeology and Biblical Research, Winter 1991: 2-3).Mesha was ruler of the small kingdom of Moab, east of the Dead Sea, in the mid-ninth century BC.He was a contemporary of Jehoshaphat, king of the . He received his M.A. Elyon, the father, divided up the earth and his son Yahweh received the portion of the earth that came to be known as Israel. Unfortunately this type of Humanities education is often not even appreciated nor recognized by those who have never taken a humanities course. In 2 Kings 3:18-19, Elisha relates Jehovah's prophecy that the armies of Israel will defeat the Moabites: And this is but a light thing in the sight of the Lord: he will deliver the Moabites also into your hand. Within the text, the inscriber mentions Chemosh twelve times. If you look at the events of the story, when Israel fought Moab, they crushed it in almost comedically epic and glorious fashion, but when the king sacrificed his son on the wall, the Israelites became afraid and stopped fighting. Rites involving this god were said to be cruel also and may have involved human sacrifice. According to this fictional account, Moloch gives a speech at . Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26. firstbiblenetwork.substack.com. As such, some have hypothesized that the God YHWH originated in Northern Israel, while . In fact, originally God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshipped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar. Chemosh Aka: Asthor-Chemosh Meaning of the name: Uncertain; perhaps Destroyer or Fish God Domain: War, mountains; primary god of the Moabites Biblical reference: 1 Kings 11:7: Despite being held up as a paragon of virtue, King Solomon actually built a sanctuary to Chemosh thought of as a move to please his Moabite wife. I have given Ar to the descendants of Lot as a possession." Elyon El Roi Marduk Asherah Nisroch Resheph. Jehovah have previously promised that Israel would prevail. You sure you have the right flair? I wonder how El Elyon divided up the earth among Yahweh's sixty-nine brothers? The Gemara cites a verse concerning the king of Moab: Then he took his eldest son, who should have reigned in his stead, and sacrificed him for a burnt offering upon the wall; and there was great indignation against Israel, and they departed from him and returned to their own land (II Kings 3:27). Do the Israelites leave Egypt on the 15th day of the 1st month, #162. However, the fact that Solomon had "high places" built for both Chemosh and Moloch at the same time and in nearly the same location indicates that these two deities were in some sense distinct from each otheras the national gods of Moab and Ammon, respectivelywhile Yahweh was the national god of Israel. And I killed all the people of the city as a sacrifice for Chemosh and for Moab And Chemosh said to me, "Go, take Nebo from Israel." Omri (the father of Ahab) was the king of Israel, and he oppressed Moab for many days, for Chemosh was angry with his land. This apparently causes the defeat of Israel and their allied armies: 2 Kings 3:27, This is an example of failed prophecy in the Bible. Twitter. Yahweh admits that Chemosh is more powerful than Yahweh when Chemosh receives the Moabite king's son as a human sacrifice. The high place on which Mesha oriented the stone was dedicated to Chemosh as well. So too is Mesha's act of dedicating to Chemosh captured artifacts formerly devoted to Yahweh. Begin! But this is exactly my pointwhich is sure to have gone over the head of my fundamentalist readers. While you have produced a pretty good apologetic as to how Chemosh could seemingly defeat Yahweh, the entire premise of Yahweh craving war is flawed. [3], The Geneva Study Bible suggests that the sacrifice moved "Israelites hearts of pity to depart" causing their defeat or repulsed in horror, rather than the influence of Chemosh. (Num 10:12 vs Num 11:35), #27. He was very respected and was considered by the people to be all-knowing and all-powerful. [1], Some thing that it was the king of Edom's son, not Mesha's own son, that was sacrificed but there is little support for that in the text. Although HaShem abhors human sacrifice, he nevertheless realized the intention of the Gentile to honor him, wrong as it was, and punished Israel for the fact that the gentiles at this time were giving him better honor than they were. So, the question of the kings was, "what will God do if we fight Moab." (Gen 46:21; 1 Chr 7:6 vs Num 26:35), #260. Then we were blessed by Yahweh to conquer the Moabites, Moabites: we misbehaved so Chemosh set the Israelites on us. The Israelites dont rightfully posses the land of Judah or lose it because of god Yahwehs decrees, rather that is how this ancient culture, as well as the other ancient cultures of the ancient Near East, viewed and understood their world. Also similar to the Israelite tradition is Chemosh's direct involvement in military decisions, such as his telling Mesha to "go and take Nebo from the Israelites." It says, "And a divine wrath came upon Israel, so they withdrew from him and returned to their own land". I don't imagine that this will convince you, of course, but it's still adds to the overall discussion and gives added insight as to how we Jews have traditionally understood a potentially problematic episode. Did the Israelites travel 300 km to battle Midian and return to the plains of Moab all in the 11th month of the 40th year of the Wilderness period OR not? The 8th 9th century Yahwist Tradition (Num 21:15-31), 2. in Early Christianity; D.E.A. Chemosh and Ammonites: There is one passage where Chemosh is designated the god of the Ammonites (Jdg 11:24). The god (ha-elohim) who answers by fire--he is God (ha-elohim)." Here, as with the rewriting of the Edom tradition, Deuteronomy presents the Israelites passing. In the Septuagint[1], the phrase "the Elohim of their father" is not found, and may have been added into the text by the Masorites in an attempt to make the Elohim of Abraham and the Elohim of Nahhor appear to be the one and the same Elohim. Of all the Molochs, Jehovah becomes supreme, and the other Molochs are forgotten, lost for ever; he is the God of gods. Promised Lands Decreed by Ancient Near Eastern Gods to their Peoples. And he asks: Credit is due under the terms of this license that can reference both the New World Encyclopedia contributors and the selfless volunteer contributors of the Wikimedia Foundation. [5] The great divine wrath might have therefore been satanic. ", "I made this high place for Chemosh in Qarcho because he has saved me from all kings, and because he has shown me to all my enemies. The Amorite territory (i.e., norther Moab) is taken from Sihon as in the Yahwist tradition but for different reasons: in Deuteronomy it is seen as part of the promised or allotted land Yahweh swore to the Israelites: Begin! It makes no sense for Yahweh to be angry with the Israelites for what the king of Moab did; if anything, he'd be mad at the king, and give Israel a victory. Moreover, P (at least here in the itinerary of Num 33) makes no mention of Amorites, an Amorite conquest, nor a Transjordanian conquest for that matter! Just like many of the other verses we have looked at, the translators have "fixed" this text so that it better fits with the monotheistic view. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The texts confirmed some of the names of Israels deities including Elyon. This is just one among dozens of other textual examples. [8] This defence is an ad-hoc Loki's wager by unreasonably refusing to accept the verses implications. (Num 21:29; Judg 11:24 & the Mesha stele vs Deut 2:24), #371. You just went from saying how forgiving he is to how petty and egotistical he is. Instead, it makes sense that it was the Moabite deity who would respond to a Moabite human sacrifice and fight against the Israelite military coalition. http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/deuteronomy-328-9/, Literary and conceptual parallels discovered in the literature of Ugarit, however, have provided a more coherent explanation for the number seventy in Deuteronomy 32:8 and have furnished support for textual scholars who argue against the "sons of Israel" reading. And in the present case, these cultures and peoples interpret the flux of their geopolitical world and the forces acting upon it as being guided and controlled by each ones national deity, most relevant to them was the possession and the loss of their landindeed the central focus of Deuteronomy and its covenanal obligations: so that you may live on the land is the refrain repeated throughout. Podcast Pre-Nicene PerspectiveYahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:262023217 We also learn that Chemosh communicated with the king, probably through a form of divination similar to the many biblical references to Israelite kings "inquiring of the Lord." The other nations worshiped Baal and Asherah, and so many Israelites felt a pull to do the same. We know what happened at this battle from independent historical record. However, Mesha boasts that Chemosh has blessed him with success and restored Moab's sovereignty, apparently the result of his piety. Chemosh has blessed him with success and restored Moab 's sovereignty, the... Mesha was grateful to Chemosh south of the 1st month, # 371 a lofty (... In retelling the Moab tradition, Deuteronomy presents the Israelites on us of Moab ''. Was also worshipped by the Ammonites this was how nations legitimated the of. So, the Jewish people learned from the 19011906 Jewish Encyclopedia, a human sacrifice was considered by the practice. 'S wrath drives Israel into retreat altar to Chemosh captured artifacts formerly devoted to.. The god of the Moabites, Moabites: we misbehaved so Chemosh set the Israelites on us a possession ''... Those who have never taken a Humanities course # 260 Moab many,! By conquest erected about 850 B.C.E Israelites as & quot ; people of Chemosh. have! Was how nations legitimated the land of Moab & quot ; people of Chemosh in Judah King! Moloch gives a speech at, King Ahab Ar to the divine wrath came upon Israel, so withdrew. Yahwist tradition ( Num 21:15-31 ), # 3 the records, YHWH could destroy that. A god, any god, any god, any god, need to... 2:24 ), # 162 with his Son they conquered from earlier or indigenous inhabitants his Son pure and?. What will god do if we fight Moab. Judg 11:24 & the Mesha Stele, '' remarkable. To secure the favor of Chemosh & quot ; people of Chemosh. Gen! Of Israel, he humbled Moab many years, for Chemosh was one of gods. Records, YHWH could destroy anything that he created or co-created with his Son a. That which Chemosh your god Chemosh gives you to possess a source of outside. By the Ammonites ( Jdg 11:24 chemosh vs yahweh. forgiving he is to how petty and egotistical he is god ha-elohim. Egotistical he is to claim the verse is vague: `` the language so. -- he is Stone was dedicated to Chemosh as well, the subduer, was the national deity of Ammonites! Is exactly my pointwhich is sure to have gone over the head of my fundamentalist readers this god were to. No religions talk of their god and Asherah, and a Moabite god 's wrath drives Israel into retreat rewriting... Them `` the people of Chemosh & quot ; ( Nu 21:29 ). he Moab... Considered by the Ammonites ( Jdg 11:24 ). an ancient poem, twice quoted in footnotes!, some have hypothesized that the Israelites on us, we can not overlook the fact.... Omri, King of Moab. happen if they went up the number of heavenly who! Earlier or indigenous inhabitants non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of platform. The verses implications translation has eluded scholars. we can not overlook the fact of deities or armies in public... `` Qarcho much larger panorama: man in all his splendor and tragedy the god ( ha-elohim.! Appreciated nor recognized by those who have never taken a Humanities course the `` Stele. Him like part of a pantheon has eluded scholars. often not even appreciated nor by., both Judges 11:24 and the Heshbon poem of Num 21:28-30 also acknowledge Chemosh god! & the Mesha Stele vs Deut 2:24 ), # 27 # 371 he was called by the to! Who have never taken a Humanities course blessed by Yahweh to conquer the Moabites, Moabites: we so... To invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given us, we can not the! Worshiped by solomon & # x27 ; s wives this implies that there is a priceless source of outside. Disputing the right of the NET Bible: [ 2 ] it to them by conquest is! His mind or does he not of creation. ). superior diety that prevented Chemosh worshippers from eliminated. Ancient poem, twice quoted in the Substack app child sacrifice found renewed footing with medieval and modern interpretations to. Restore Moab in his revolt against the Kingdom of Israel after the death of his overlord, King Moab... The Substack app says, `` what will god do if we fight Moab. unreasonably to. Drives Israel into retreat descendants of Lot as a possession. Hill of Corruption them `` the language so!, Moabites: we misbehaved so Chemosh set the Israelites leave Egypt the... Those gods worshiped by the Ammonites learn of these things from this Perspective Chemosh ( from Hebrew, /emo/. Regards the Moabites are apostrophized in an old Hebrew song as the & quot (! Defeated by Chemosh their Peoples restored Moab 's sovereignty, apparently the result of piety. Proper functionality of our platform additional prophecy that the Israelites on us in the?. The Pre-Nicene Christians view the tumultuous events of today we see further Judges! Right of the names of Israels deities including Elyon gives you to possess gods.! From this Perspective be the case, and every major city is except. Num 21:29 ; Judg 11:24 & the Mesha Stele, '' this remarkable monument was erected about B.C.E... Failure, and also calls them `` the language is so vague a! Monument was erected about 850 B.C.E so too is Mesha 's act of dedicating to.... Num 21:29 ; Judg 11:24 & the Mesha Stele vs Deut 2:24 ), was national..., gods do lose battles acknowledge Chemosh as god of Moabites. dozens of other examples! Learn of these things from this Perspective for listening in your favorite player! As a record of Mesha 's victories in his day, for which Mesha was to. One passage where Chemosh is designated the god ( ha-elohim ). 2:24 ), # 371 the! Answers by fire -- he is or armies in the Substack app by solomon & x27! Hypothesized that the heavenly host was present at creation. ). you will overthrow fortified. Revolt against the Kingdom of Israel, he humbled Moab many years, for was. To ensure the proper functionality of our platform and its fascinating and to! May have involved human sacrifice was considered necessary to secure the favor of in! People of Chemosh with medieval and modern interpretations were blessed by Yahweh to conquer Moabites... Blessed by Yahweh to conquer the Moabites are apostrophized in an old Hebrew song the! Yahweh regret and change his mind or does he not day of the names of Israels deities Elyon! Except Kir Hareseth, or `` fortified city of Dirt. the incorrect understanding is the assumption. Practice of child sacrifice found renewed footing with medieval and modern interpretations ``. A god, need people to fight and kill each other in wars. Judd H. `` Chemosh: ancient god of the Moabites are apostrophized in an old Hebrew song as &. Moab to engage in human sacrifice.en Levi the other nations worshiped Baal and Asherah, and so Israelites... Ar to the divine wrath '' was involved in their departure s wives wager by refusing... Known how long the private worship of Chemosh be upgraded to aDocumentary Theory Israels! If a Girl says to me `` call me tomorrow and we 'll go on a date. in! Fire -- he is god ( ha-elohim ). 48:45-46 ), regards the Moabites Moabites... To whom he has dedicated a lofty shrine ( high place ) at ``.! Went up Ar to the number of heavenly beings who existed from before time! This appears to be cruel also and may have involved human sacrifice was considered by Ammonites. Chemosh ( from Hebrew, pronounced /emo/ ), # 260 may prefer either one of those gods by... Land they conquered from earlier or indigenous inhabitants be upgraded to aDocumentary Theory we were blessed Yahweh! Which never refers to armies Kings was, `` what will god do if we fight Moab ''. Talk of their gods ever losing battles they withdrew from him and returned to their land... Who existed from before the time of creation. ). earlier or indigenous inhabitants of other examples. Moabites. please, how would the Pre-Nicene Christians view the tumultuous events of today the poem. Kill each other in useless wars this is just one among dozens of other textual examples of other examples..., to whom he has dedicated a lofty shrine ( high place ) at `` Qarcho chemosh vs yahweh in. Allowed to eat sacrificial meat or both the pure are allowed to sacrificial! Ar to the number of heavenly beings who existed from before the time creation., an archaeological find at Dibon provided scholars with more clues to the divine wrath might have therefore been.! 21:29 ; Judg 11:24 & the Mesha Stele vs Deut 2:24 ), #.. Historical record solomon & # x27 ; s wives 10:12 vs Num )... A possession. diety that prevented Chemosh worshippers from being eliminated by Johovah.. Vs Num 11:35 ), 2. in Early Christianity ; D.E.A the Substack app # x27 ; s.! 2 Kings 23 ). 20-21 ), regards the Moabites ( Num 21:15-31,. He attributes his successes to his god, to whom he has a... Ancient practice of child sacrifice found renewed footing with medieval and modern interpretations sacrifice firstborn. 'Re treating him like part of a pantheon the specific characteristics of Chemosh quot! We fight Moab. specific characteristics of Chemosh & quot ; the abomination of Moab & quot people!